Comments on: When Did Popularity Become Quality? http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/ A wine podcast and blog Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:54:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Wine Blog Award Winners Announced | Winecast http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56512 Wine Blog Award Winners Announced | Winecast Tue, 01 Apr 2008 01:13:38 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56512 [...] been somewhat critical of these awards but my remarks have not been taken exactly in the way I’d intended. I never [...] [...] been somewhat critical of these awards but my remarks have not been taken exactly in the way I’d intended. I never [...]

]]> By: Estelle Platini http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56500 Estelle Platini Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:11:07 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56500 >Does the site’s infrastructure/platform affect statistics? It does not. You will be much better once you have changed to a proper CMS. Be sure to back up everything before migrating. >Does the site’s infrastructure/platform affect statistics?
It does not.
You will be much better once you have changed to a proper CMS. Be sure to back up everything before migrating.

]]> By: Arthur http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56495 Arthur Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:59:48 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56495 Estelle One more question: Does the site's infrastructure/platform affect statistics? Right now I am in the process of changing form static pages (I know..) to an active CMS and PHP platform. Estelle

One more question: Does the site’s infrastructure/platform affect statistics?

Right now I am in the process of changing form static pages (I know..) to an active CMS and PHP platform.

]]> By: Joe http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56494 Joe Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:56:11 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56494 We have the Oscars, Peoples Choice, Cannes, Sundance - there will be other blog awards with a different focus. It is what it is, and until there are competing Awards ceremonies it's the best we got. My only gripe is four per category is a bit tight - the massive growth in the blogosphere over the past year six per category IMHO. Hey Andrew - how about the Commonwealth Wine Blog Awards? :) We have the Oscars, Peoples Choice, Cannes, Sundance - there will be other blog awards with a different focus. It is what it is, and until there are competing Awards ceremonies it’s the best we got. My only gripe is four per category is a bit tight - the massive growth in the blogosphere over the past year six per category IMHO. Hey Andrew - how about the Commonwealth Wine Blog Awards? :)

]]> By: Estelle Platini http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56493 Estelle Platini Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:52:21 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56493 Arthur, Tim, Thank you for your interest. Where are these numbers from? They are from public sources. I attempt to explain that <a href="http://blog.cellarer.com/metrics-of-website-optimization/" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Please comment there if a point is not clear. How do websites get added to this list? I need to know that they exist. Websites are eligible if they talk about wine except if they emanate from producing estates or wine sellers. You have to draw a line. (<a href="http://blog.cellarer.com/best-wine-websites-2008-01/#competition" rel="nofollow">How to participate</a>) I have about 90 sites to check for the next ranking in a month or so. 20 of them are new to this competition. Arthur -- your site is on this addition list. Only 50 of the 90 will appear. How are these statistics collected? I consult the figures shown as <a href="http://blog.cellarer.com/metrics-of-website-optimization/" rel="nofollow">metrics</a> and copy them into my spreadsheet! Arthur, Tim,
Thank you for your interest.

Where are these numbers from? They are from public sources. I attempt to explain that here. Please comment there if a point is not clear.

How do websites get added to this list? I need to know that they exist. Websites are eligible if they talk about wine except if they emanate from producing estates or wine sellers. You have to draw a line. (How to participate) I have about 90 sites to check for the next ranking in a month or so. 20 of them are new to this competition.
Arthur — your site is on this addition list. Only 50 of the 90 will appear.

How are these statistics collected? I consult the figures shown as metrics and copy them into my spreadsheet!

]]> By: Enobytes Wine Blog » Blog Archive » American Wine Blog Awards Fermenting Controversy http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56487 Enobytes Wine Blog » Blog Archive » American Wine Blog Awards Fermenting Controversy Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:02:54 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56487 [...] proposal by Tim Elliott at Winecast, which seems to support the Web 2.0 direction. His recent post, "When Did Popularity Become Quality?" proposes an independent awards program modeled after the Motion Picture Academy Awards. He started [...] [...] proposal by Tim Elliott at Winecast, which seems to support the Web 2.0 direction. His recent post, "When Did Popularity Become Quality?" proposes an independent awards program modeled after the Motion Picture Academy Awards. He started [...]

]]> By: Tim http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56482 Tim Wed, 26 Mar 2008 00:35:20 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56482 Estelle: Very interesting list you have... I'm with Arthur, what are your sources? Estelle: Very interesting list you have… I’m with Arthur, what are your sources?

]]> By: Arthur http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56480 Arthur Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:53:24 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56480 Estelle, Where are these numbers from? How do websites get added to this list? How are these statistics collected? Estelle, Where are these numbers from?
How do websites get added to this list?
How are these statistics collected?

]]> By: Estelle Platini http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56479 Estelle Platini Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:26:07 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56479 Reading you is still a pleasure even if you put less effort into it this past year. This award event shows as though it was mainly a tool for promoting a few. Many long-standing US wine blogs are not nominated. Craig Camp's is notably missing. A few blogs that get very high readership are not nominated in any category. Here are some examples: 7200 people/month at Dr Vino's 5400 people/month for Winecast 4000 people/month at Boxwines (The amounts are approximative and come from <a href="http://blog.cellarer.com/metrics-of-website-optimization/#traffic" rel="nofollow">public figures</a>.) Your academy idea is good but difficult. For what it's worth I attempt an easier competion with <a href="http://www.cellarer.com/best-wine-websites" rel="nofollow">an objective ranking of wine websites</a>. Reading you is still a pleasure even if you put less effort into it this past year.
This award event shows as though it was mainly a tool for promoting a few. Many long-standing US wine blogs are not nominated. Craig Camp’s is notably missing.
A few blogs that get very high readership are not nominated in any category. Here are some examples:
7200 people/month at Dr Vino’s
5400 people/month for Winecast
4000 people/month at Boxwines
(The amounts are approximative and come from public figures.)
Your academy idea is good but difficult. For what it’s worth I attempt an easier competion with an objective ranking of wine websites.

]]> By: Andrew @ Surf4Wine http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56478 Andrew @ Surf4Wine Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:21:22 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56478 Catie: Agree with re. Jill at Domaine547's graphics. They are awesome, and doubly so as our own surfer-dude's artist is no longer available to us, otherwise we'd have given everyone a run for their money ;) Awards like this are always going to stir up debate; personally, I don't think there is any right or wrong re. awards (especially if we are included ;) ), and if it gets everyone talking and looking more blogs, well then it has served a useful purpose whatever the outcome Catie: Agree with re. Jill at Domaine547’s graphics. They are awesome, and doubly so as our own surfer-dude’s artist is no longer available to us, otherwise we’d have given everyone a run for their money ;)

Awards like this are always going to stir up debate; personally, I don’t think there is any right or wrong re. awards (especially if we are included ;) ), and if it gets everyone talking and looking more blogs, well then it has served a useful purpose whatever the outcome

]]> By: BackRoadsWine http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56469 BackRoadsWine Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:54:27 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56469 I have to admit, I wanted in but I forgot to send an e-mail to my staff to nominate me and act like they were just some anonymous person, but being my employees, they were out reviewing Pinot in the Willamette Valley which is understandable especially because they are getting paid to do so. I was at home changing diapers and sober as a judge. Anyhow, I didn't get one nomination, not even a faked one so I will prouldy bear the Budo-Kun standard as I feel I earned it honestly. My wife is getting it tattood on her backside too! You might wonder why I would admit this, it's because confession is good for the soul and if you knew how much I spent this year chasing wealthy vitners who don't care about internet advertising, you'd shake your heads in pity, or nod them in approval. Go to domaine547 to get your Budo-Kun logo and wear it proudly. I will. I have to admit, I wanted in but I forgot to send an e-mail to my staff to nominate me and act like they were just some anonymous person, but being my employees, they were out reviewing Pinot in the Willamette Valley which is understandable especially because they are getting paid to do so. I was at home changing diapers and sober as a judge. Anyhow, I didn’t get one nomination, not even a faked one so I will prouldy bear the Budo-Kun standard as I feel I earned it honestly. My wife is getting it tattood on her backside too! You might wonder why I would admit this, it’s because confession is good for the soul and if you knew how much I spent this year chasing wealthy vitners who don’t care about internet advertising, you’d shake your heads in pity, or nod them in approval. Go to domaine547 to get your Budo-Kun logo and wear it proudly. I will.

]]> By: Arthur http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56466 Arthur Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:00:50 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56466 Actually, I was engaging in heavy-handed sarcasm. Of course there are objective standards in assessing any publication! There are objective standards to assessing any product or service. The resistance we see to this is not because we are chasing windmills but because we are attempting to herd cats (or trying to give them a bath). Actually, I was engaging in heavy-handed sarcasm. Of course there are objective standards in assessing any publication! There are objective standards to assessing any product or service. The resistance we see to this is not because we are chasing windmills but because we are attempting to herd cats (or trying to give them a bath).

]]> By: Tim http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56465 Tim Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:31:12 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56465 Maybe you are correct, Arthur... we are chasing windmills here or worse ;-) Maybe you are correct, Arthur… we are chasing windmills here or worse ;-)

]]> By: Arthur http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56463 Arthur Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:08:47 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56463 Tim: Don't you know that if lots of people love something it MUST be the best?! And there really is NO way to objectively assess the quality of a blog. I mean, we are all just so unique! Our perceptions and opinions are unique! Bringing in a bunch of insider blogger bullies who think they know what I might like to dictate my preferences to me is just insulting! I prefer to cast a vote for each nominee who sends me a request for their vote because I have a mystical connection with their content and styling of their site that transcends any stuffy standards. ;) Tim: Don’t you know that if lots of people love something it MUST be the best?! And there really is NO way to objectively assess the quality of a blog. I mean, we are all just so unique! Our perceptions and opinions are unique! Bringing in a bunch of insider blogger bullies who think they know what I might like to dictate my preferences to me is just insulting!
I prefer to cast a vote for each nominee who sends me a request for their vote because I have a mystical connection with their content and styling of their site that transcends any stuffy standards.

;)

]]> By: ryan http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56461 ryan Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:28:04 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56461 Catie, there is no butt kissing i know of. Considering last year I called Tom ignorant(or rather a post he wrote i said was silly). I'm not in any inner circle that I know of. I agree lot's of blogs were not included that might have been. In catavino's category(single subject) where is LENNDEVOURS???? Probably the best single subject wine blog out there? He was nominated, just not included. Odd... I do on the other hand think there is some merit to the AWBA's in the sense you do get a lot of people talking. When you are very narrowly focused it's even harder. Catie, there is no butt kissing i know of. Considering last year I called Tom ignorant(or rather a post he wrote i said was silly). I’m not in any inner circle that I know of. I agree lot’s of blogs were not included that might have been. In catavino’s category(single subject) where is LENNDEVOURS???? Probably the best single subject wine blog out there? He was nominated, just not included. Odd…

I do on the other hand think there is some merit to the AWBA’s in the sense you do get a lot of people talking.

When you are very narrowly focused it’s even harder.

]]> By: Tim http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56460 Tim Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:00:52 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56460 Steve: Unfortunately, that's what most people are thinking, but for me it's not the case. I haven't made it to the final voting in the AWBA both years because what I do here is not good enough; I can deal with that. What I was trying to point out was that winners are chosen mostly by popularity and not some sort of a panel of experts assessing quality. And if it was just traffic, then <a href="http://alawine.com/wine-blog-rankings.html" rel="nofollow">these would be your winners</a>. Steve: Unfortunately, that’s what most people are thinking, but for me it’s not the case.

I haven’t made it to the final voting in the AWBA both years because what I do here is not good enough; I can deal with that. What I was trying to point out was that winners are chosen mostly by popularity and not some sort of a panel of experts assessing quality.

And if it was just traffic, then these would be your winners.

]]> By: Thomas Pellechia http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56459 Thomas Pellechia Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:02:07 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56459 Catie, How do you think I fare? My vinofictions was nominated, but I knew the chances for me were close to zip. I write about what goes on in the wine world. Except for an experiment in January, I don't do wine reviews--many have told me that I should, and that because I don't it holds back the appeal of my blog. But I tenaciously (and likely stupidly) cling to the notion that the public needs less hype and more information. Catie,

How do you think I fare? My vinofictions was nominated, but I knew the chances for me were close to zip.

I write about what goes on in the wine world. Except for an experiment in January, I don’t do wine reviews–many have told me that I should, and that because I don’t it holds back the appeal of my blog. But I tenaciously (and likely stupidly) cling to the notion that the public needs less hype and more information.

]]> By: Steve http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56458 Steve Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:03:34 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56458 Tim - that sounds like a division from sour grapes? I didn't win, so I support a different award system? I don't actually think it is that simple, but it read that way. I didn't win any nominations (which is good, because I would question any award system in which my blog was nominated), but I really question the benefit of more awards. Doesn't this just segment our community into "haves" and "have nots"? Why not just let traffic dictate the best? If you really like a blog, link to it. This, to me, is the best award system. Reward sites that you enjoy by linking to it - think of it as an Award System of One. Tim - that sounds like a division from sour grapes? I didn’t win, so I support a different award system? I don’t actually think it is that simple, but it read that way.

I didn’t win any nominations (which is good, because I would question any award system in which my blog was nominated), but I really question the benefit of more awards. Doesn’t this just segment our community into “haves” and “have nots”?

Why not just let traffic dictate the best? If you really like a blog, link to it. This, to me, is the best award system. Reward sites that you enjoy by linking to it - think of it as an Award System of One.

]]> By: Tim http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56455 Tim Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:53:18 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56455 Wilf: No, I would hope that voting by peers would actually make such awards less prone to cronyism but it all really depends on the community being involved. Right now, I don't see that happening as bloggers seem to be divided down somewhat party lines. Those nominated for AWBA are negative to my proposal, those not tend to be more positive. Join the discussion over at the <a href="http://www.openwineconsortium.org/group/owcawards" rel="nofollow">OpenWine Consortium</a> if you are interested in the outcome. Wilf: No, I would hope that voting by peers would actually make such awards less prone to cronyism but it all really depends on the community being involved. Right now, I don’t see that happening as bloggers seem to be divided down somewhat party lines. Those nominated for AWBA are negative to my proposal, those not tend to be more positive.

Join the discussion over at the OpenWine Consortium if you are interested in the outcome.

]]> By: amyrootvik.com » Blog Archive » Rejected: You know it! http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56451 amyrootvik.com » Blog Archive » Rejected: You know it! Sun, 23 Mar 2008 02:06:03 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56451 [...] out the discussion over at Winecast on the topic. I think it’s pretty interesting. Does popularity alone lead to awards? Or is [...] [...] out the discussion over at Winecast on the topic. I think it’s pretty interesting. Does popularity alone lead to awards? Or is [...]

]]> By: Wilf Krutzmann http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56450 Wilf Krutzmann Sat, 22 Mar 2008 23:51:36 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56450 Tim: "only wine bloggers would nominate and vote"? Don't you think that would just lead to the same old "in group club"? You nominate me and I nominate you and we'll all vote for each other.It'll be pretty much the same blogs that would win every year. There are so many good blogs out there and I look at a lot of them. Hey, I'll vote for yours, Tim. Tim: “only wine bloggers would nominate and vote”?
Don’t you think that would just lead to the same old “in group club”? You nominate me and I nominate you and we’ll all vote for each other.It’ll be pretty much the same blogs that would win every year. There are so many good blogs out there and I look at a lot of them. Hey, I’ll vote for yours, Tim.

]]> By: 1WineDude http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56439 1WineDude Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:34:42 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56439 Gotcha - different and complimentary. I'll jump on over to OWC and join in the discussion. Gotcha - different and complimentary.

I’ll jump on over to OWC and join in the discussion.

]]> By: Tim http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56438 Tim Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:26:55 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56438 Dude: the public can vote over at the American Wine Blog Awards... think of it as the "People's Choice." What I'm proposing here is like the Oscars where only wine bloggers would nominate and vote on the awards to recognize excellence not who's the most popular. Dude: the public can vote over at the American Wine Blog Awards… think of it as the “People’s Choice.”

What I’m proposing here is like the Oscars where only wine bloggers would nominate and vote on the awards to recognize excellence not who’s the most popular.

]]> By: 1WineDude http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56437 1WineDude Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:02:05 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56437 Ah, but if the public doesn't vote... then who would vote? If we're blogging for the public, why not trust that public. Easy for me to say - I wasn't eligible to be a finalist this time around anyway ;-). Ah, but if the public doesn’t vote… then who would vote?

If we’re blogging for the public, why not trust that public.

Easy for me to say - I wasn’t eligible to be a finalist this time around anyway ;-).

]]> By: Catie http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56436 Catie Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:40:38 +0000 http://winecast.net/2008/03/21/when-did-popularity-become-quality/#comment-56436 Last couple of years I have blown off the idea of ever being "cool" enough to even be a finalists, let alone a nomination unless I have a pack of friends and family visit Tom's site. First of all, I know a lot of winebloggers do not take me seriously. I am from Walla2 and only write about Walla2 wines. "Hmmm...where the hell is that?" Also, something tells me this is all about butt kissing, too. Sorry, but that kind of activity smudges my lipstick. So, I keep on blogging because I love it and the only thought I had this year about the AWBA is that Jill of Domaine547 definitely should have received a nomination for her graphics. And when I found out she didn't? Now I know that something just aint right. Last couple of years I have blown off the idea of ever being “cool” enough to even be a finalists, let alone a nomination unless I have a pack of friends and family visit Tom’s site.

First of all, I know a lot of winebloggers do not take me seriously. I am from Walla2 and only write about Walla2 wines. “Hmmm…where the hell is that?” Also, something tells me this is all about butt kissing, too. Sorry, but that kind of activity smudges my lipstick.

So, I keep on blogging because I love it and the only thought I had this year about the AWBA is that Jill of Domaine547 definitely should have received a nomination for her graphics. And when I found out she didn’t? Now I know that something just aint right.

]]>