Comments on: Can I Really Be Objective?

By: Napa Valley Wine Radio - A Wine Education Community

Napa Valley Wine Radio - A Wine Education Community — Sun, 22 Apr 2007 15:46:00 +0000

[...] to read about this discussion on ethics and objectivity between two of my favorite wine bloggers, Tim at Winecast and Alder at Vinography. Not only do they consistently make an effort to educate and entertain us, [...]

By: Winecast - A wine blog and podcast

Winecast - A wine blog and podcast — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:08:31 +0000

[...] all this attention to ethics and disclosure over the past few days, I have also been thinking about wine ratings. No, not writing descriptions [...]

By: Tim

Tim — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:09:16 +0000

Dr Debs, Philip and Dave,

Thanks for your support and feedback. I’m now returning to normal blogging and podcasting…

By: Snooth Blog » Blogger Objectivity

Snooth Blog » Blogger Objectivity — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:03:49 +0000

[...] Elliot over at Winecast has started an interesting post on whether people involved in the wine industry, particularly bloggers, can be impartial when [...]

By: DancingDavidE

DancingDavidE — Sat, 07 Apr 2007 16:56:27 +0000

Tim, keep it coming! I think that we the readers understand where you are coming from, you are navigating these potential conflicts as best you can.

We would be deprived of a great wine resource if you were to scale back Winecast. Keep tasting, keep blogging!

Your working in the industry should be a bonus to all of us, not a hindrance.

By: Philip James

Philip James — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 18:27:20 +0000

Tim - Its an interesting dilemma and part of the bigger topic of impartiality faced by financial research analysts as well as in many other careers.

Personally, i think you’d be doing the community a disservice if you were to stop your reviews to avoid any potential conflicts. So long as you adequately disclose your involvement in the industry i think people are smart enough to make their own minds up.

I see the debate itself as philosophical and not relevant to people’s day to day enjoyment of your blog.

Keep it up
Philip

By: Dr. Debs

Dr. Debs — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 17:29:31 +0000

Chiming in a little bit late here, but I think the replies you’ve already received are all headed in the right direction. You do disclose your connections to the biz, and reveal press samples, and I think that is what you need to do–provided, as Alder points out, that YOU are comfortable. And then there’s the objectivity thing (which you know I have opinions about). As we all recognize, it’s hard to be objective totally and completely when it comes to something as subjective as wine. Connections in the biz, or a free bottle, only highlight a problem that is there whenever we write about the stuff. Being aware of it is the only–and by no means perfect–defense. And you are. So, in my books, you are as objective as you can be!

By: Tim

Tim — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 16:54:14 +0000

Jeff: As a fellow wine blogger/wine industry professional I really appreciate your perspective here. I know we are walking a fine line at times but our experiences do provide interesting subjects and context to blog about. And that last point you make has not come to pass just yet but I will continue to disclose anything along those lines here when it does happen.

Paula: Your point on bias and the subjectivity of rating wines is a very good one and I’ll be posting a bit later today on my background as a taster and the mechanics of how I taste. All of this certainly does have an effect on the resulting reviews. Finally, your point on authenticity really hit home. Thanks…

By: Paula G

Paula G — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 14:31:56 +0000

I’ve been reading and listening to you for a long time now. While ethics are always a dilemma, let’s face it we all have perceived and actual biases. For example, you shared you like a certain style of Zinfandel & when you review Zins you mention it, and it comes out in the end. Does that make something else “bad” by nature. No. It is preference. While there are some standards around what constitutes a good or bad wine, the bottom line for any person is - do they like the way it tastes & do they enjoy it. What if you reviewed a wine and were simply having a bad day and didn’t rate it as high as you might on another tasting. Does that mean you’re biased or simply reporting your opinion of a certain wine and a certain tasting experience? I would say the latter.

That being said — I think full disclosure as you go along (just like you have done in the past) coupled with the fact that your site and reviews are only as good as the reputation you maintain means that you should continue doing what you’re doing. As long as you stay authentic, honest and up front which has been your style anyway, the ethics dilemma should no longer be a dilemma.

Thanks for bringing the conversation forward to us all….

By: Jeff

Jeff — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 14:29:44 +0000

Tim,

I don’t think you need to stop reviewing wines or blogging. Your opinions are your opinions. It might not hurt to remove all references to your employer on the site and put the caveat that your opinions are yours alone.

I’ve also taken the step of not using information that I’ve gained professionaly for use on my blog. Of course, I do use ideas and I reference things opaquely if they need to be referenced so, but I consider it like a journalist who does background research and not an issue of ethics.

Occasionally I’ll use a conversation I’ve had while on the job as a reference point, but I make sure that it’s couched in something of relevancy for my site i.e. consumer-oriented and doesn’t engender or endanger any relationship for which I might be striving professionally.

It cuts both ways. Disrection is the rule, but presenting something compelling with authority is the same rule for this situation. Sometimes the two don’t always place nice together. And, I also ALWAYS reference a mention of a winery as a customer of my employer, if that happens to be the case–though that is perhaps less than 2% of the time.

I think as long as your opinions are well researched and rationale, people understand you’re trying to do something with integrity and no ulterior motives. And, again, your opinions are yours alone and do not reflect that of your employer.

One last thought, perhaps it hasn’t happened, yet, but it will … you will be privy to something by virtue of your spot in the wine blogosphere that will directly economically benefit your employer, and that too will need to be noted for positivity.

Jeff
http://www.goodgrape.com

By: Tim

Tim — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 13:25:56 +0000

Alder & Ryan,

Thanks for your thoughts. I am coming to the conclusion that I just need to continue to be vigilant with disclosure and make sure I keep my professional life and what I do here well separated. I’ll also revisit this subject from time to time with readers.

By: ryan

ryan — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 10:18:16 +0000

I agree with Alder. You would be doing a disservice by stopping your reviews. The reader needs to be careful when taking anyone’s advice, and we all are influenced by wine samples, our position in the industry and other factors. That said, being objective is important, and the dialogue you have started just shows all the more why you should rate the wines you taste.

By: Alder

Alder — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 06:31:01 +0000

Tim,

All good questions to ponder, and good to do them here with your readership, which is really what you’re concerned about in making this sort of choice. It’s important to think, too, about whether you might be doing your readers more of a disservice in STOPPING coverage of Napa wines as you might be with any implied conflict of interest.

At the end of the day, though, you need to be able to live with yourself and not constantly be second guessing what you do, and you need to feel confident that you’re doing right by your readers.

Alder

By: Tim

Tim — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 03:31:37 +0000

Wow, thanks for your support everyone… the only comment I’m still pondering is Garrick’s post, but my next review will not be a fruit forward wine in his honor (and who does make the best French Toast in the Twin Cities?).

By: razmaspaz

razmaspaz — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 02:46:00 +0000

Tim,
First off I think that in normal circumstances a disclosure (that you work in the industry, or that you received a press sample) is enough to provide transparency. You are right that because you work directly with a winery it COULD call into question your reviews of a competitors wine. The part that makes it OK for you in the end is that you value your reputation. If you begin using this blog as nothing more than a way to sell your client’s wines then you will lose readers. People aren’t stupid, they’ll see through the trumped up (or down) ratings and reviews for what it really is. So if you are honest, and you disclose when there might be a conflict of interest, you won’t cause any problems by me.

By: James

James — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 02:38:36 +0000

Let me start by saying that I think that ethics in blogging are very important and some self-evaluation from time to time is healthy. However, I think you need to give yourself and your readers more credit here. Blogging is more open and is usually more personal than what you find in traditional/print publications. They are either unwilling or not permitted to be as open as bloggers typically are and this keeps them distanced from their readers. There’s always that sense of doubt about what may be motivating a particular score or an overly flattering article. My point is that your readers know where you stand and your commitment to disclosure & transparency since you blog/podcast openly about it. At least that’s enough for me.

Put it this way: if you ripped a wine from the producer across the road from Goosecross, I’d take your word for it.

-James

By: There’s No Accounting for Taste | Garrick Van Buren .com

There’s No Accounting for Taste | Garrick Van Buren .com — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 01:38:21 +0000

[...] Tim, rate and review what you’re interested in. I know you like fruit-forward wines. If a wine [...]

By: Sonadora

Sonadora — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 01:21:30 +0000

Interesting dilemma. Ethics is topic that rears its head in my line of business ALL the time. I am both a lawyer and I work in government contracting, so I have to be careful of the regulations of the State Bar Organization in addition to avoiding any appearance of impropriety in my contracting activities. Meaning, I had to divest myself of stock of corporations that I might potentially be awarding contracts to and disclose and recuse myself from any work where I may know or be related to a party involved, plus other things. And I need to be very conscious of this given that I worked too damn hard for the Bar admittance to lose it over something stupid.

In your case, I think that simple disclosure of the fact that you received the wine as a sample, coupled with the knowledge that you work in the wine industry is fine. That seems transparent enough to me to satisfy a reader. I guess my point is, do not give up blogging or restrict your blogging. I think disclosure is great though, as it’s something I appreciate when I see a blogger revealing that the wine was a press sample.